Xubuntu + BeOS like theme + Remastersys = PC/OS?

Tuxmachines Linked to this article, to which the author fires off some commentary.  Seeing as though he suffers from the illiterate syndrome that plagues some OSNews users, I decided to answer him.  I made these comments in his comment section.  Judging by his demeanor he will probably be a tool and not let it pass moderation.  So here is my response, word for word.

” Thanks for the feedback and your opinion on PC/OS. Let me clear up some confusion, obviously the author is confused since he obviously is illiterate and cant read as well as offering uninformed opinion of what PC/OS is or what the goals are. I never claimed PC/OS to be a Be clone. What do I have in common with the BeOS. Ease of use, I package everything together for the user. Flash, multimedia codecs and Java are all installed for them and that believe it or not is a major pain point for new Linux users. Why did I use the BeOS theme? Because of the simplicity of it, and 1 of my few, yet growing lists of users, requested it. You are absolutely right, there is nothing BeOS about PC/OS and I am proud of that fact. If you had been part of the discussion instead of writing some rant piece like a rabid fan boy you would see that and possibly read that, oh wait my bad sorry, you cant read. What else do I have in common with BeOS? Multimedia focus. Content creation and delivery, Open Server System excels as a streaming platform. Is it geared for a major infiltration into the enterprise? No its not.

Will PC/OS fail? Unfortunately for you, no it wont. I have no delusions about being a great big OS vendor, I dont intend to be, I plan to share what I find useful, if you dont want to use it, you dont have to. I plan to keep distributing PC/OS, whether I have 1 user, 100 users or no users. This is the spirit of open source, to share, share ideas and share what you find useful and since you have written off PC/OS instead of actually READING, it just shows your lack of knowledge or comprehension of how Open Source works.

Why do I offer t-shirts, mugs, etc. The service is free so why not and I have sold a few pieces of fan apparel. Why do I sell DVD ISO’s? Convenience, you dont want to download it, fine, order a DVD. Dont want to go through an install process? Order a hard drive, slap it in your machine and go through some simple scripts and it runs.

Why am I working on a PowerPC version? Not for my health, people have requested it and donated the machine, so why not? I have had a couple of requests for 64bit. Jeez, for a project that NO ONE USES and that is failing, I have a lot of requests.

So who are my competition? Is it Apple, is it Microsoft, is it BeOS? No, none of the above. If you must label a competitor, and judging by your writing, you must be seeing this as a competition well, For you, and you only, say 64studio, and Ubuntu Studio.

I am very happy with my 59 strong niche and my project. You arent, fine then, dont use it. Its a simple concept. Others may find it useful, you dont.

If you came looking at PC/OS, searching for the BeOS, you came barking up the wrong tree and maybe you learned you should look at the project, maybe contact the maintainer and check with him.

I’m going back to work on my PowerPC edition of PC/OS. If you have any other questions, or just want to throw an insult my way, send me an e-mail, I read them all.

BTW, give me some credit. I have a separate build machine for every build of PC/OS, I dont use my own workstation.”

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16 Responses to Xubuntu + BeOS like theme + Remastersys = PC/OS?

  1. belover says:

    I read the review or as roberto writes, rant. I just started using PC/OS since the desktoplinux review and I really appreciate the work being done here. First and importantly is that this distribution hits the spot where codec support, multimedia support is non-existant or is left to the user to set up. This is one of the major shortcomings of the Linux world and I am glad somebody gets it. The blog also talked about how PC/OS is an offshoot of Ubuntu, what do you think Linux Mint is? Linux Mint is an offshoot of Ubuntu, Ubuntu itself is an offshoot of Debian. As a be lover and still a Be user I was upset with DesktopLinux but when I realized what this distribution is, the fact that roberto doesnt hide what it is or what he trying to do I appreciate his work and will use this PC/OS because I do appreciate what he did and I am personally not insulted and I welcome this distribution.

    P.S. Its funny that the blog makes fun of PC/OS because of Remastersys, thats what Linux Mint is as well.

  2. pcos08 says:

    This is the blog authors response:

    ” My my Roberto,

    obviously the author is confused since he obviously is illiterate

    You are using this argument way too fast in the discussion. Usually it takes two or three interaction before I get a remarkt like this.

    As you can see, your response isn’t moderated out for it, though you suggest as much on your own weblog. As you also noticed, I did take the time to read your weblog and website since the article has various quotes. Like in your response, you like to use BeOS references again and again to indicate that -although- PC/OS isn’t a rebuild of BeOS it will be providing what BeOS provided.

    Well, it doesn’t and I know BeOS too well to say that in a heartbeat. Heck, you couldn’t even change the Remastersys-generated GRUB to provide something with it’s own look and feel.

    it just shows your lack of knowledge or comprehension of how Open Source works

    LOL. The classic mistake argument: “You don’t agree with me, criticize me, so you don’t understand it”. Now , let’s see, how does open source work? Isn’t there something called review, peer review, there? Well, then I am definitely qualified to discuss your remaster of Xubuntu since I have created a few remasters of my own. The difference? I didn’t ’sell’ them as something new, innovative that would finally make Linux easy (implying that all others don’t).

    To be honest, I didn’t know you were scorched by the OSNews crowd, but I can image some weren’t too keen on the BeOS reference. They can be tough to deal with, but they are also brutally honest. Again, part of open source, but that you know already.

    I came looking for PC/OS since DesktopLinux wrote about it, used the BeOS references extensively and quoting you on it. As part of my writing I test out Linux distributions constantly and the BeOS heritage is dear to me, so if I was led astray, I don’t think the blame is on me.

    I don’t blame you for making your own little custom version of Ubuntu and sharing it. Why should I, you are entitled to do that. I don’t agree with the claims on your own website, the claims in your blog and I blame DesktopLinux for writing the article the way they did since it seems to be based on hearsay instead of actually popping the disk in the drive.

    But please continue doing what you do. After all, it is a ’scratch your own itch’ world.

    Kindest regards,

    Jan Stedehouder”

  3. pcos08 says:

    My further comment:

    ” Like in your response, you like to use BeOS references again and again to indicate that -although- PC/OS isn’t a rebuild of BeOS it will be providing what BeOS provided.”

    And it does, a focus on ease of use and a focus on multimedia. If you had read the weblog you would have read that and you would have also read that I do NOT and will NOT provide an emulation layer with which to run BeOS binaries. This is a LINUX platform.

    ” Well, it doesn’t and I know BeOS too well to say that in a heartbeat. Heck, you couldn’t even change the Remastersys-generated GRUB to provide something with it’s own look and feel.”

    To change it its a link to a graphic. I dont change it because I actually do think the remastersys generated one looks cool, sue me. Are we going to sit here and argue over a grub background?

    ” To be honest, I didn’t know you were scorched by the OSNews crowd, but I can image some weren’t too keen on the BeOS reference. They can be tough to deal with, but they are also brutally honest. Again, part of open source, but that you know already.”

    I wasnt scorched by the OSNews crowd, they like you, got the impression that PC/OS was a Be clone. In fact one of the “scorchers” after cooler heads prevailed agreed and he learned what PC/OS was and what it intends to do agreed to help me with the cosmetic issues of PC/OS. What I find cool doesnt mean others do and I appreciate any help.

    ” I came looking for PC/OS since DesktopLinux wrote about it, used the BeOS references extensively and quoting you on it. As part of my writing I test out Linux distributions constantly and the BeOS heritage is dear to me, so if I was led astray, I don’t think the blame is on me.”

    Yeah you did, one quote from me about how I plan to provide the ease of use and focus of the BeOS. Which I have done. Focus and implementation are vastly different. If I had tried to mimic many BeOS concepts it would have been an issue like Zeta.

    ” I don’t blame you for making your own little custom version of Ubuntu and sharing it. Why should I, you are entitled to do that. I don’t agree with the claims on your own website, the claims in your blog and I blame DesktopLinux for writing the article the way they did since it seems to be based on hearsay instead of actually popping the disk in the drive.”

    And its like this, I never claimed to be BeOS, never wanted to be the BeOS. Do I share a similar focus? yes I do and I maintain that I do.

    Your complaint is that I claim to be something Im not, which I have never done. And that I am not technical enough or skilled enough to change a Grub background image. Awww man, I thought this was going to be interesting.

  4. Dak says:

    Geez, I’m still confused about who can pee higher on the wall.

  5. pcos08 says:

    My final post to the author of the blog entry. I have more rewarding ways to spend my time.

    ” Humor me Robert,”

    What makes you think you deserve any more of my time?

    You want any more of my time or to discuss technical issues, hire me. I am not cheap.

    I have contributed a lot to this project. You dont care what I have contributed, you wont ever be a PC/OS user and your opinions about PC/OS dont matter to me at all.

    The most important contribution PC/OS has made to Linux is very simple. Pop in an Ubuntu CD, try accessing Youtube and a Java app, guess what you cant do it with a vanilla Ubuntu live CD, now put in a copy of PC/OS and do the same thing, it just works. To you it may not matter, but to somebodys mother, it does, to somebodies wife, it does. Its simple, it is “Simplified Computing” and thats the audience and niche Im filling. If you think PC/OS is just a rebranded Ubuntu, go along and be happy with that and just let your ignorance shine through. I maintain that the focus of PC/OS and BeOS have two things in common, ease of use and multimedia performance. Your arguments of “How to make Xubuntu look like BeOS” and your laughable gripe about a GRUB background fall short of interesting. PC/OS is a new distribution, it will be continued to be maintained, developed and as future versions come out, will continue differentiate itself from the rest.

    So tell you what honey, go back to the seminary and learn to be more christ like because you havent gotten there yet and Im going to go back working on my PowerPC edition, going back to the people that actually give a crap about PC/OS and I will thank you. Downloads have increased because of your little tiff, sales have picked up on the DVD and CD versions of PC/OS and today I have sold 2 hard drives with PC/OS. So I guess any publicity is good publicity.

    BTW, I will post a copy of this in the development blog. If you have any more questions or comments, e-mail me because Im done with this conversation publicly. Its time for one of us to be the better man, and I can walk away from this showing I have more class than you. I do look forward to the future and success of PC/OS and I wish you all the best.”

  6. shawn says:

    Bravo Roberto. I think this guy needs therapy. Some people need attention and this guy got his 15 minutes of fame and just showed what a loser he was. I’m glad you are continuing to work on PC/OS and remember this: Some people will like what you do, others like Jan wont. Some will be grateful for your contributions, some wont. Great job and great distro.

  7. Seth Corven says:

    Hi Roberto,

    I wrote the review for Distrowatch and I have to say that guy was wrong on all counts. I stand behind my review and I think you have done a most excellent job with your distribution. You make a difference and you have made a big difference for a lot of people. I am one of those people. I think of all the little distributions you do a great job. Your server distribution is great, your desktop is great and stands out all on its own. Dont let Jan get you down. I think he is jealous of your distribution because you do make a difference and it shows, you have shown a lot of people what Linux can do and in my mind have pushed it past the notion that its only good for servers. PC/OS has become the unofficial Linux distribution on all the developer’s laptops at work and we are all looking forward to the next release.

    Push forward my friend and good luck.

  8. Cris Molina says:

    He posted a further response and since I also have a stake in PC/OS I decided to answer his claims.

    ” ROFLOL

    So you did humor me after all. Simply put: the answer is “nothing””

    Actually he didnt. He answered you and he has contributed alot to PC/OS and Linux in general. Take up his challenge, put in an Ubuntu CD or even an Ubuntu DVD and go through the list of packages and try to run them, you cant. Open a run dialog and run ‘gufw’, a tool developed by a third party but included in PC/OS nonetheless, you cant. Try to connect the liveCD to an Active Directory domain, you cant. One of the reasons I stuck with BeOS was that in the past all the Linux distributions were cumbersome to work with. You would have to install the system, then fetch the packages that you wanted . To setup a usable system it takes close to three hours from an Ubuntu install. With PC/OS I installed the system and to my surprise it took maybe 20 minutes before I had a usable system. When I first heard about PC/OS on OSNews I thought the same thing as you did, that Roberto was just throwing around the BeOS name to garner attention after our discussion and after I used it I did realize that he wasnt trying to clone the beOS but to do the same thing using Linux and open source and I think he has succeeded.

    ” in Dutch the first name “Jan” is applied to the male gender.”

    I can see why Roberto was confused, you whine like a woman.

    ” derision is a method of debate best used with skill and based on solid facts.”

    To which you have no skill, Roberto pretty much shredded you on every one of your points and I seriously laughed coffee through my nose when I read your gripe about a grub background and your “technical” arguments. You claim you have done remasters and that you have created distributions, where are they? Or have they all leaped to obscurity because you werent technical enough to push them forward. You claim that you are religous, and you also claim that Open Source opens you up for peer review. Peer review is not personally attacking someone just because you disagree with what they do. Peer review is, “I tried PC/OS it wasnt my cup of tea, I hated it because of item X, item Y, item Z” Personally attacking someone by calling them a fraud and questioning their integrity is not peer review. Also I am very catholic and religous myself and your behavior and your treatment of Roberto shows that you have no clues about what it means to live in christ just as your arguments show you have no clues about open source and technologies.

    Kenh from the forums put it best, PC/OS is the most complete XFCE distribution on the market and I personally know many UbuntuStudio users who have switched to PC/OS and many people in my LUG at the Uni have switched to PC/OS from LinuxMint XFCE and Zenwalk.

  9. Mike Garrette says:

    I was attracted to PC/OS after reading Jans blog. I was disappointed, not at PC/OS but at Jans arguments. He came off as a crying wanker like somebody called his wife fat and his kids ugly. A BeOS fanboy with nothing more than feeling insulted. I decided to download PC/OS and I used it. It didnt take long for me to install it and replace Ubuntu 8.04. It really is nice to look at and to use. I like the tracker type layout and the fact that everything is set up for me by default and took away some headaches. The collection of applications is top notch. For the real test I set my wife in front of it who normally hates Linux and I ussually dual boot Linux with Windows XP just so she can use XP. After half an hour she asked, “Why cant the others be this easy” I burned a couple of CD’s and DVD’s to add to my LUGS library of PC/OS. We are also setting up a conference in Atlanta ,GA and I will talk to them about making you a speaker for the desktop segment. I would love to hear more about your ideas and PC/OS in general.

  10. flg says:

    I was one of the original developers for the BeOS. I worked for Be when it opened its doors to the day it closed so I have a lot of insight to offer on what Be intended to do with the BeOS. After reading both sides of the argument I decided to try PC/OS. Well, I personally like it. Of all the Linux distros that have tried to do what Be did PC/OS comes the closest to any of them even ZevenOS. You see, it takes more than just adding a icon theme, a window manager theme and a name to recreate the BeOS. One of my frustrations with Haiku is that they too just dont get it. When we created Be we had a vision of a user putting in the disk, installing the software and getting right to work. No Linux distro except for PC/OS and maybe Mint have gotten that right. PC/OS has a focus on content creation and multimedia enhancement and thats another area where no other Linux distro except for UbuntuStudio has gotten that one absolutely right. What I like about PC/OS is that it tackles both usage scenarios in one swoop, thats what makes this distro fascinating. Another thing I like about PC/OS is that it strives to be a platform for users to do whatever they want regardless of licensing and that is an anomaly in the Linux world.

    Roberto keep your focus on what your doing. PC/OS is creative, its intuitive and very simple to use and thats where you will win. You wont be a success overnight but you will be a success. Your second release looks great and seems to build upon your ease of use just one tip tho, dont get too bloated. Its easy to do.

    Otherwise, great work and you have my endorsement. i forwarded this to Jan and a couple of ex-Be guys as well.

  11. L Earp says:

    Greetings from Sun Microsystems, I think Jan Stedehouder missed the point of PC/OS entirely. Yes you can place the panels where you want, yes you can change themes and artwork as you want and those were the only good points he did make. can I download some packages from the repository and create my own “PC/OS” yes I can, but I dont want to. I would much rather download an ISO burn it and install and thats it and I think thats what consumers want as well. I also like the fact that you dont shy away from proprietary vendors, Skype, RealBASIC and I read somewhere Picasa and LinDVD. I personally hope PC/OS brings you much success or that a Linux company picks you up, you are definitely in touch with the user and thats what the Linux industry needs, someone thats in touch.

  12. jamesw says:

    Just downloaded the 2008v2 and I love it. One of the final comments on Jans blog is Jan and he says:

    ” Hey, if you are happy with it, please continue using your own favorite distribution. In fact, that is what Linux is all about, freedom of choice.

    The gist of the article also dealt with another key aspect of Linux: respect for the work that you are building on. As the article shows, PC/OS is sorely lacking in that area, spreading around claims that can not be substantiated. Keeping a clean house isn’t ‘useless’ or ‘narrow minded’, but feel free to stick to that opinion.

    Other than that, why not give Xubuntu a try, as that team did the real work to provide you with an easy to use Linux distribution.”

    So I took his advice, after downloading PC/OS and trying it I fired up a Xubuntu LiveCD and tried it. I need ndiswrapper for my wireless connection, now knowing Ubuntu its on the CD and its installable that way but its not included in the base install. Several things I can do with PC/OS even from the LiveCD perspective I cant do with Xubuntu. My next question would be, why doesnt he target gOS, its Ubuntu with a Mac like theme and links to several web apps. From my point of view at least you are trying to fix some of the issues that the common user would have by just downloading Ubuntu or Xubuntu.

  13. pcos08 says:

    @jamesw

    first let me go ahead with what Jan had to say to that poster, personally I have given up on the guy since he obviously doesnt care about PC/OS.

    ” The gist of the article also dealt with another key aspect of Linux: respect for the work that you are building on. As the article shows, PC/OS is sorely lacking in that area, spreading around claims that can not be substantiated. Keeping a clean house isn’t ‘useless’ or ‘narrow minded’, but feel free to stick to that opinion.”

    I do not take any credit from the Xubuntu or Canonical team, in fact I have a good relationship with a lot of the people at Canonical, we talk quite a bit. I even link to Ubuntu, Xubuntu and XFCE from the home page, so how am I trying to hide PC/OS’s roots? Canonical builds the base system and I thank them for that and I do send them bug reports that I do find in regards to PC/OS as we are built on that base the bugs that affect me also affect them to some degree. I have never made any unsubstantiated claims about what PC/OS is or isnt, in fact as several posters before you point out to me it seems more like he is pissed about the BeOS connection that the media and some reviewers have made (I do have a lot of ex BeOS users and developers that use PC/OS) He doesnt like PC/OS, I really dont care about his opinions of PC/OS. I keep working with PC/OS and several users later and one major release later that should show how little I care about him or anyone elses opinion. If I had 0 users I would still release PC/OS.

    ” Other than that, why not give Xubuntu a try, as that team did the real work to provide you with an easy to use Linux distribution.”

    You made the point for me, there are several things you can do with PC/OS that you cant do with Xubuntu. Also none of the Xubuntu developers work on PC/OS.

    As for why he doesnt attack the gOS, thats a question for Jan and Im pretty sure it has to do with the fact that he feels his beloved BeOS was tainted by PC/OS.

    Well, he wants to tell people not to be “narrow minded” well, hold on a second.

    (picks up phone and dials) “Hello Kettle, this is pot”

    Jan has been challenged to pick up a copy of PC/OS and Xubuntu or Ubuntu and try to perform the following functions without a download from the repositories or any outside source.

    Watch flash content
    Connect to an active directory tree
    Listen to an MP3
    Compile a software package
    and now, good point james, install a Windows wireless driver

    He has never taken that challenge and I doubt he ever will because he is so narrow minded in his attacks and his opinions that when he does his arguments will have no base and he knows that. I do wish him the best in his future and as far as Im concerned this bout is over, I shredded every one of his arguments and now he can go focus on someone else. He wants to compare me to Ultimix, I honestly dont care. He can write whatever he wants, I dont care.

  14. Jan Stedehouder says:

    Well, this seems to be the second time a message is directed at me personally. My response to the Be-developer above never made it to the comments (moderated out?). Too bad all those high-level endorsements (Be, Sun) are anonymous.

    Roberto, would you mind explaining when and how you challenged me to try Xubuntu? See, for a challenge to be taken up, it has to be communicated first. And….the bout was over on July 20th 😉

    Ciao

    Jan Stedehouder

  15. pcos08 says:

    ” Well, this seems to be the second time a message is directed at me personally. My response to the Be-developer above never made it to the comments (moderated out?). Too bad all those high-level endorsements (Be, Sun) are anonymous.”

    Actually he did, you moderated it out. I know you did because I commented on two of the comments and you moderated them out. So you know what, you want to have a one sided argument go right ahead. And dont bother contacting me again through the blog, you wont pass moderation. Two people can play that same game.

    The Be developer was the only one who offered an endorsement, which I thank him for and he is actually part of the forums. The user from Sun is exactly that, a user. You wont hear any high profile deals between Sun and myself but if I had one you would know. I also have two Google employees that use PC/OS and contribute frequesntly does that mean Im being endorsed by Google because two of their employees use PC/OS?

    ” Roberto, would you mind explaining when and how you challenged me to try Xubuntu? See, for a challenge to be taken up, it has to be communicated first. And….the bout was over on July 20th”

    Yep, I did and you never did. Hey thats fine, I dont care. You arent a user. So move on. You refused the challenge, you never answered jamesw’s question about gOS. I already know why you singled me out and if you consider the bout over, go away. I shredded your arguments so is it am ego thing? I know, when you obliterated the Ultimix guy and he curled tail between legs and went away you thought lightning was going to strike twice.

    If thats all, have a great life. For someone who doesnt care about PC/OS you seem to focus on it a lot.

  16. wild_childe says:

    Jesus Christ, why does this guy hate you so much? LOL It would be funny if it wasnt kind of stalker like.

    Anyway, I use PC/OS. Great distro. It works flawlessly on my old Dell system and its by far the most responsive. Keep up the great work.

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